My family has recently surfaced from what seems like a plague of sorts. It started with a major home improvement – a floor transplant—and ended with pink eye. Between, there have been lots of other interesting events. Be thankful you’re not my BFF because then I’d have to bore you with all the gory details. Since the house is half put together, the humans are on the mend and the IRS is no longer sending us little notices, I can find time and my desk in order to post. This is something I wanted to post at the beginning of the month, but oh well. If you’ve been keeping up with Ex/Urb you know that our current feature interview is with Brad Johnson, the former pastor of a suburban megachurch who is now employed as a Starbucks barista. Brad was what I’d call locally famous here in the NW ‘burbs of Los Angeles. He had an affair, his family was devastated and he stepped down from his church post. Many people (including my dear husband) would say, “Yeah, whatever.” But if you read Brad’s interview you know that it isn’t about the details of his affair or some confessional account of what happened. It’s an interview about spirituality and even redemption. Okay, and it also satisfies some curiosity as to why he’s working at Starbucks. But let’s get back to the higher ground. It seems to me that lately many of us are questioning our faith. In tough times maybe this is par for the course. I know in the past few months whether I pick up the New Yorker and come across an article on Ian McEwan and how he now agrees with Christopher Hitchens that God is not great or whether I check my email and find a friend has sent me a link to a  Nightline Face Off on whether the devil exists, spiritual questioning is all around. In fact, I remember reading a few months ago about a survey concluding there are fewer “believers” in the U.S. now than at any other time. The poll, The American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, CT, found that 75 percent of Americans now call themselves Christian. In 1990, the figure was 86 percent. When I mentioned this to a friend recently, he called it a Bush backlash. Maybe.

At my house, we’re always interested in ideas about faith. My husband rented Bill Maher’s documentary Religulous some nights ago. After I watched it I spoke with my friend Steph, who was once one of Pastor Brad’s church members and is now sort of wondering about all things spiritual.  I told her how I felt after watching Religulous, which was that while many of Maher’s ideas I found interesting– and some I found extremely enlightening — something bothered me. Maher came off as picking on the least articulate believers. It’s a low blow, in my opinion, for a slick, smart television dude to ask a bunch of truckers who attend church in a trailer beside a roadside diner to defend their religion. Why didn’t he do more interviews of people like those at, say, The Harvard Divinity School? He seemed to give very little footage to really smart and studied believers. Nonetheless, as I said, Maher made some good points. Steph put it in perspective, though. She said, “I don’t want to watch Religulous. Right now I’m looking for reasons to believe — not reasons not to believe.” I think with the state of the world right now, that’s true for many of us (unless you’ve already sided with Hitchens et al).

I have a recommendation for those of you like Steph and myself who are always on the lookout for reasons to have faith in all varieties of ways. I recently came across  10 Things Your Minister Wants To Tell You (but can’t because he needs the job) by Reverend Oliver “Buzz” Thomas. Actually, I first checked out the audio version at my library. I don’t really have a minister but I wanted to hear what this Buzz guy thought my minister would tell me if I did have one and if he didn’t need to keep his job. Thomas is from Tennessee so sometimes his voice reminded me of Bill Clinton’s. Arkansas and Tennessee are close enough to share twangs and drawls, I guess. Later, I went back to the library and checked out the book, which is a very slim volume. I learned from the jacket cover that the good Reverend Thomas is a Baptist minister and constitutional lawyer. From his photo, I see he’s also kind of hot (married for nearly 30 years, father of two). I now know that some theologians have criticized the book as too glib but I’m not a theologian. In the book, Thomas addresses many of the most serious issues that keep us from believing. For example, is God really against homosexuality? Does God say women should be subservient to men? How do you please God? I liked it all but the chapter on homosexuality I found most interesting. Many of us hear so-called religious people say they’re not for gay marriage or that they don’t “condone” homosexuality because it’s a sin. Thomas explains that the book of Leviticus does mention homosexuality in an unfavorable way but also “Leviticus is filled with laws imposing the death penalty on everything from eating catfish to sassing your parents.” Thomas rightly says that if we decide homosexuality is wrong based on Leviticus, we must also decide eating catfish and a bunch of other crazy stuff is also wrong.

He also writes about how science shouldn’t be pitted against religion, how so  often the Bible isn’t translated well and how to live a right life.  My fave quote Thomas offered, though, is at the end of chapter 5 and comes from the theologian Martin Luther: Make peace with God and sin on bravely.

I take that as meaning make peace with religion. And I think maybe that isn’t a bad manifesto. Stop wondering, sin on bravely. What else can mere humans do?

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Fresh Starts & The  ’Good Samaritan’

When you fall, when life knocks you down, when you fail, if the right people come along and help, you have the chance to begin your life again.

And here’s the truth:  we have all needed help to get through something in our lives…and we will again in the future.   When people describe themselves as ‘self-made’ people or that they ‘pulled themselves up by their own boot-straps,’ such accounts are not fully accurate.  Everyone has been helped through the hard places of life.   This dramatic story of the original “good Samaritan” makes the point…

The enemy came upon his fallen foe.   The foe was bloody, beaten, maybe dead.   In the First Century, Samaritans and Israelites avoided each other, ridiculed each other, hated each other.  They were enemies.  The Israelite was the fallen.  The Samaritan approached.

This is a classic dilemma:  How Will You Treat A Person in Need?   To raise the stakes, Jesus added this element to the story of the Good Samaritan: How will you treat someone who hates you, if THAT person has a need?

The Jewish man had been traveling, likely for business, along a treacherous road.  Boulders jutted out sharply and provided hiding places for would-be thieves.   Like us, he had no idea that everything in his life could suddenly change.  Why the man traveled ‘that’ road, why he was traveling alone, Jesus doesn’t tell us, only explaining,  “…he fell among thieves…”

Before the Samaritan came along, two others travelers came upon the wounded, bloody man and quickly walked by on the other side of the road.  Both were religious.  Both were busy.  Both believed they were servants of God. (You decide)

Then, in sharp contrast, the Samaritan approached.   Had the Jewish man been conscious, he would have feared the Samaritan, would have shrunk from his touch, suspected his motives.  And he would have been shocked, as are we, that this man, of all people, would have provided help.

If you were the Samaritan, how would you have responded?  Before helping, what information would you have required?   Maybe: How did the man get in this predicament?  Was it his own fault and he’s getting what he deserves?  Are the thieves still in the area?   The Samaritan asked no questions.  How the man came to be is such a state, did not concern the Samaritan.  He saw a man in need and helped.  Period.

Further, the Samaritan gave a shocking amount of assistance—medicine, transportation, economic support and the promise to continue help until the fallen man was once again healed.  No partial help.  No half-way measures.  Full, sustained, merciful help.

I have been down.  I know the hopelessness of that place.  I’ve watched people pass by on the other side of the road, rather than help.  AND, I have experienced the amazing grace of kind people who have helped me heal and start my journey again.

Two questions:  Have you ever been in need of a ‘Samaritan’ during a hard time in your life?  Of course you have.   Take the time, once again, to express your gratitude.

Then, do you know someone right now who needs a ‘Samaritan?’   Will you assist?   Will you begin today doing what you can to help another person get back on their way, back on their journey?

The living of life is a combination of being helped and of helping.   We live on both sides of that equation.  We certainly have been helped along the way, so what a privilege to help others through their times of need.

Pastor Brad Johnson has been in the ministry for more than 30 years and currently heads up lifechangecommunity.org. He also makes a mean latte.

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For four years, Brad Johnson, affectionately known as “Pastor Brad,” was at the helm of Calvary Community Church, a megachurch in Westlake Village, California, a suburb of Los Angeles.  Pastor Brad preached to more than 5,000 people each Sunday and was widely regarded as a gifted man of the cloth. Even those who are not his fans today admit that his weekly sermons struck a chord. In short, Pastor Brad laid it down. He was able to deliver a sermon and that sermon felt as if he were talking to you. Besides, he was nice looking, a devoted father and husband, and had been assistant pastor at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church prior to Calvary. Cynics already know where this story is going, of course. Something happened. Pastor Brad’s oldest daughter went off to college; his youngest got her driver’s license. He started to notice how little he had in common with his then-wife Kim, who had been his high school sweetheart. He had an affair. Or maybe more than one. He abruptly resigned from Calvary, leaving the church in shock and hemorrhaging members. Yes, Swaggert and Haggard and dozens of Catholic priests have stories far more scandalous than Pastor Brad. But wouldn’t you like to know what a guy who used to preach to thousands is doing making lattes at Starbucks?

Ex/Urb’s Victoria Clayton sat down with Pastor Brad Johnson before one of his shifts at his new job. Here’s what they talked about...

Ex/Urb: Some people think it’s bizarre that you used to head a huge church and now, two years later, you’re a barista. Is there a reason you took a job at Starbucks, especially in the community in which you used to preach?

Pastor Brad Johson:  I heard that I could get health benefits with just 20 hours a week, which would give me a lot of flexibility to take other jobs. I provide insurance for me and my youngest daughter [20]. She’s a college student so she’s still on my policy. The health benefits Starbucks offers are really strong and it’s one of the only companies that offers health benefits for part-time employees. That’s what drew me specifically to Starbucks. I applied initially to a different store in another area. The person was very affirming and said, “I’d love to hire you. My store doesn’t have a position, though, but my friend’s store does have a position. Do you mind if I pass your name along?” It ended up being this Starbuck’s. I debated it, though.

 

Ex/Urb: What went through your mind?

Johnson: I didn’t want people to feel uncomfortable because I was here. I wondered, too, if God was trying to teach me something about my character or humility. I wondered if there was a lesson. There are dozens of Starbucks in this region, but this is the one that hired me. I wondered if there was a divine purpose behind it. And then, you know, I’m a man with bills and a daughter I want to care for and I think there’s something positive to working hard and trying to be a responsible person. It was the only job offered to me in a two-month period and so I took it. I needed the income and the insurance. And here it was…kind of with a grin and strapping on my apron, here I go!

Ex/Urb: What a big change. I imagine you were making a very good income in your old position and feeling powerful, right?

Johnson: Well, maybe not powerful, but I was certainly financially comfortable. I was in the ministry for 30 years. Anyone who sticks with the same profession for three decades tends to get more responsibilities and opportunities, and certainly there was a sense of financial security. I was making $10 an hour at a job in college in 1978 and now I’m making $8.25. Isn’t that interesting?

 

Ex/Urb: Yes. But what are the options for someone who has lead a huge church and had to step down? 

Johnson: You know, the career opportunities afterward are sometimes challenging. People have a perception of your skills as a minister. Public speaking is one and some writing, but they don’t see the business side. We had a 100 person staff and an $8 million annual budget. I led a fairly strong business, but that doesn’t translate well on a resume. People want me to be able to say I was CEO or president or a sales manager or whatever. But I was a pastor of churches.

Ex/Urb: Has your faith changed because of your circumstances?

Johnson: I do feel differently in many regards. I think my faith is stronger now because of it. I have a different perspective about God now. I always taught that God loved people, he created us, gave us the world that sustained life and provides for our needs. I taught that for years, but to be in a position of blowing it so badly, feeling so undeserving of love, and then, in many ways, to see that God was still showing love and compassion to me, that was a very profound experience. His love became real in a way I needed it to be.

Ex/Urb: That’s interesting. I could imagine going the other way too; saying after this you don’t believe in God.

Johnson: God didn’t do anything wrong. I did, and so to blame him would’ve been a cop out probably. With the church, I was never one of those preachers who got red-faced and pounded the pulpit and screamed. I’ve fairly much been a mercy-giver through my life and talked more about the love and forgiveness of God than some. Because of that there have been some who have been mercy-giving to me as well. That hasn’t been true across the board, though. There have been some who were so wounded and disappointed; which  I understand. They’ve been quite vocal in their opinions about my life and whether or not I should ever engage in ministry again. I know why it’s hard for people who fail to be a part of churches. Churches don’t do failure really well.

Ex/Urb: That’s a good point, but who hasn’t failed in some way?

Johnson: Right. And we’ll say that in the Christian community. You know, “We’re all sinners.” We’ll use these clichés, but it’s quite uncomfortable sitting next to somebody who you know the details about.

Ex/Urb: Even back before you were in the position, you probably knew a lot about others in the church who had failed. Did you feel uncomfortable previously with them?

Johnson: I didn’t. That’s what I’ve known about God. But, again, to say it and then be on the receiving end has been insightful. I try to teach and demonstrate and encourage that God does give fresh starts. It’s what he specializes in. Nobody is beyond his love, nobody is beyond his reach, nobody is beyond his forgiveness. And then I got in these circumstances and I thought, Oh, I found somebody who is and it’s me!

Ex/Urb: At least you have a sense of humor!

Johnson: I had to work through that.

 

Ex/Urb: Just to be a regular person and go through an affair and divorce, I suppose is terrible, but to be such a person in the community and then have it happen, that’s something else. Tell me about how your children handled this.

Johnson: Well, they were profoundly hurt, even though they’re older. I hear people say maybe it’s better when the kids are older or maybe it’s better when they’re younger but I don’t think there is a better. Divorce is just a very harmful and hurtful experience for everybody. Even when people come out the other side and feel better about themselves or their lives or futures. I haven’t talked with anyone who found it to be an easy experience. I never met anyone who was unaffected by it. My kids are no exception. And because my actions instigated the divorce, it broke my relationship with my children initially. They love their mother, as they should. They were very disappointed by me, as they should be. I just had to make a determination that I would do everything in my power, if necessary for the rest of my life, to rebuild a relationship with my girls [ages 20 and 23]. And, thankfully, I did. Now I talk to them or text them everyday. We’re at such a healthy, healed place now, but it’s two years later and it took a while.

Ex/Urb: And what about your ex-wife. Are you on speaking terms?

Johnson: Yes. She’s a gracious woman. She moved back to the Midwest, where we lived for 20 years. She’s close to her family and a good circle of friends. We talk about things related to our children. We’d been married for 28 years. We were high school sweethearts. So there’s a foundation there.

 

Ex/Urb: Where did you two grow up?

Johnson: Indiana. I moved there for high school and she was at the high school I attended.

 

Ex/Urb: What was your family background?

Johnson: My dad is a minister as well. He’s 75 and still pastors a small little Methodist church in Southern Indiana.

 

Ex/Urb: Were you always expected to go into the ministry?

Johnson: Not really. It was actually always the last thing I wanted to do. Growing up, our family was always criticized and scrutinized. And, you know, everybody else’s children could misbehave maybe but if we did…you know, an attorney isn’t going to lose his job if his kids misbehave but a pastor might. 

 

At about 17, though, I had this very, very deep sense that God was pulling me toward ministry. And I fought it. I pondered it and prayed about it and talked to a lot of people about it…they said I needed follow my heart if I really felt God was asking me to be in the ministry. So I gave my life to it at 17.

 

I went off to a four-year liberal arts college in Kentucky and they had a program in religious studies and also psychology, that’s my bachelor’s. And then in Louisville, Kentucky, the nation’s second largest theological seminary was an hour and half from where I was living. So I did a 91-hour masters program and then an additional 36-hour doctoral program. At the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Ex/Urb: You did get to this Starbucks in a sort of weird way but you also could’ve entirely left the area. Is there a reason you didn’t?

Johnson: Yeah, there are surface reasons but probably the deepest reason is that I’ve seen people run from issues and problems. Geography wasn’t my problem. Wherever I went, I would go with me. All my baggage was going with me. The Christian community is a fairly communicative network. I wasn’t going to go anywhere where my life and circumstances were not right there.

 

Ex/Urb: You didn’t feel you could be anonymous?

Johnson: No. And so why not try to stand back up where I fell? It hasn’t always been easy. There have been days I wanted to run. But looking back now I’m glad I stayed. It gave me the opportunity to talk to people I’ve hurt. I’ve had lots of conversations with people over the last two years. And I’ve tried to just be a good man, earn a living, help take care of my kids.

 

Ex/Urb: You do an online ministry now?

Johnson: Yes, it’s a daily video. It’s called  LIFECHANGECOMMUNITY.org. It’s a three to four minute video everyday that I write, film and upload. It’s mainly to provide encouragement and hope to people from a spiritual perspective. Right now I’m doing a series on 100 promises from the bible. I’m on number 75 right now. And it is that if you trust God he will take care of our needs. If you’re wrestling with fear, you can rely on his strength. There are a lot of wonderful promises in the bible. And I think with our world right now –not just financially but with everything – a lot of people need some encouragement. I know I do. The feedback I get is that it’s been helpful to people. I also teach a bible study on Tuesday nights to about 20 people. It’s open to anybody. Every month we move to a different home and people host it. It’s typically at 7pm.

 

Ex/Urb: How do people sign up for it?

Johnson: They can email me on the lifechange site.

 

Ex/Urb: You hope to have a church again, right?

Johnson: Yes. I was talking to a friend and he made a good point. He told me that people are considered accomplished in a field if they have 10,000 hours in that field. He said, “You started at 17 on a church staff. You have almost 90,000 hours. You need to be using that. You have something to offer.” So I would like to use what I know.

 

Ex/Urb: What’s the trick to being a great minister? So many people have told me that they felt like you were talking right to them when they attended your sermon. I haven’t talked to anyone so far who didn’t like you as a pastor.

Johnson: I don’t know if there’s a trick necessarily. But I genuinely cared about people. I genuinely cared that you were there, that you showed up on Sunday, I cared about the families and I wanted to be helpful from God’s perspective. So maybe just caring helped.

 

Ex/Urb: Were your sermons all original? How did you come up with those?

Johnson: Yes, they were all original. I would write a manuscript for a 40-minute teaching every week. I don’t want to sound simplistic but I just focused on what God put in my heart. A lot of it too came out of conversations I had with people…their hopes and needs and disappointments and dreams. God has a lot to say about all this. I always had way more ideas than I had time to teach.

Ex/Urb: What do you miss the most from the ministry?

Johnson: Well, I miss it now but I didn’t for a while. The hardest thing about here–

Ex/Urb: –here? Here is different from elsewhere? Why?

Johnson: Well, my theory, not to offend anyone, is that it has something to do with the affluence. There’s an entitlement that sometimes accompanies affluence.

 

Ex/Urb: And you felt your parishioners with largely affluent?

Johnson: They were. Someone said that to teach in Westlake is like auditioning for American Idol every week and its mostly Simon Cowell in the audience. That’s what it was. So if somebody didn’t like something I said or didn’t like a theological perspective or didn’t like a joke or didn’t like my hair, by Monday my email box would just have, like, people holding up their scorecards.

 

Ex/Urb: What was the score usually?

Johnson: Well, I would get far more positive but, like most people, I’d remember the negative ones better. I guess it’s just human nature.

Ex/Urb: Your other churches [including Rick Warren’s Saddleback] were also in affluent areas, right?

Johnson: Yeah, but it was different here.

Ex/Urb: Because it was outside of L.A. maybe?

Johnson: Maybe. I don’t know. I talked with ministers and teachers too who have worked elsewhere and they say that this is a particularly demanding place. That doesn’t make it bad. I actually think it indicates even a greater need for us to be spiritual and learn about how to do life and treat people right. On the flip side, there were also so many rewards to ministering in this area too.

Ex/Urb: Like?

Johnson: I met some wonderful friends here. My kids got a terrific education here. They went to Oaks Christian, mainly because Oaks is a neighbor to my former church. They’d always went to public before but when we moved here my oldest was a senior and she could’ve went to Westlake High, where there are 500 kids in a graduating class, or Oaks, where there are 100. We thought Oaks was her best bet. And my youngest went there for three years and just thrived. I think she might have also thrived in public school, too, but it’s a great school. They give kids a lot of academic challenge, but also a lot of exposure to different perspectives. They bring in speakers each week. My youngest was introduced to this lady who leads the International Justice League in Washington, DC, who talked about the dire plight mainly of children in many parts of the world. To hear a national leader address things already on my daughter’s heart was very reinforcing. The speakers are typically from a Christian perspective but they also have U.S. senators and others. It might not work for all kids but it really was a great school for my kids.

Ex/Urb: So what did you say you missed most about the ministry?

Johnson: Well, maybe the opportunity to help people….how would I say it? Well, I also think I have some influence here with coworkers and people who come in. So I probably have a little ministry of influence right now. But I guess if you want to be an influential person you want to be that as much as you can.

Ex/Urb: And that’s a desire?

Johnson: To want to be a positive influence? Yes.

Ex/Urb: What is your favorite drink to make at Starbucks?

Johnson: Hmmm…I like to make a London Fog tea with soy.

Ex/Urb: What do you think about Starbucks offering instant coffee?
Johnson: It’s awful. It’s a good idea with a bad result. The flavor isn’t there.

 

Ex/Urb has decided to show Pastor Brad a little mercy, too. Starting this Sunday, June 6, Pastor Brad’s blog Fresh Faith will make it’s debut here. Sign up for the RSS feed to get Fresh Faith updates plus notices anytime we post new stories, interviews or blogs. Also feel free to offer your comments below.

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